Things I wish i knew before becoming a father
Photo by Dicson NMvktndlLCY on Unspash
In today’s episode, Dave and Jim discuss the things they wish they knew before becoming a father
During this episode we’ll discuss:
How we prepared for our first child
What we wish we knew before becoming fathers - from lack of sleep to the passage of time
If you like what you heard, please consider subscribing, writing a review, and sharing the podcast on social media.
Resources:
Additional podcasts to listen to:
Transcript
[music]
Dave: In today's episode, we're reflecting on the things we wish we knew before we became fathers. Hey, everyone. Welcome to the [unintelligible 00:00:15] podcast, the podcast for dads by dads. For today's episode, we thought it would be fun if our future selves could go back in time and give advice to our soon-to-be dad selves. First of all, here's my deal. I'm Dave. I have an eight-year-old girl and a five-year-old boy.
Jim: I'm Jim. I've got an eight-year-old girl and a five-year-old girl.
Dave: Let's just get into it. I think the first question that would be interesting to hear about is how prepared were you for your first child? Did you do a lot of research, did you talk to other dads, or did you just wing it?
Jim: I was prepared in the logistics kind of way. We did the test drive to the hospital, I read about the birthing, we did the birthing class, so I felt like I was prepared logistically for the event, but not necessarily for the next three months, let's say, or the next six months after that. The most helpful resource was a couple of other dads that I had at the same time, the kids that were born within two or three weeks. There was a couple of guys in our birthing class, and then some neighbors and some friends that also had kids that were born around the same time. If nothing else, it was emotional support that we were all going through the same thing at the same time, but that's not necessarily preparation. That was more dealing with it in the moment.
I wasn't prepared in the way that people talk about, are you prepared to be a parent and maybe emotionally or psychologically or whatever it is. There's a lot of things that I was not prepared for and I could have done things to get smarter about it, but I also think it's the kind of experience that you don't understand until it happens or until you do it. That's just something I learned along the way afterwards, obviously.
Dave: I'm curious, you said that there were people in your birthing class from the neighborhood. How did that work out? My birthing class was just a bunch of random people from the hospital, going to that hospital.
Jim: There was one guy who I had come across in a business context and then I found out that he lived in the neighborhood. Then I had ran into him on the bus and then he was on the birthing class. Then I ran into him in the hospital and I was like, "Well, I guess we're just supposed to be friends. I guess that's just how it's supposed to work out." I think it was just a coincidence that we ended up in the same place.
Dave: That's interesting. Like you, my experience-- I guess, I hadn't really thought about it until you made it very clear that I was really very much focused on just that first day. Just getting through the process of having that kid.
Jim: The moment.
Dave: Right. Because I think part of it is there's all these things that lead up to the moment. We've talked about it in previous podcasts, getting ready for the birth. There's a very distinct moment that you're-- There's a goal like, "We're just preparing for this thing." You absolutely forget that there's this whole continue-- It's not a distinct event. It's just the beginning of the whole process. I had done some research in the what to expect while you're expecting and we also did the birthing class. I felt pretty good about everything leading up to the event, but I absolutely did not prepare for the parenting part of it.
I guess, if you think about it too, the actual birth process, there's not a ton of us as dads to do. The real work, I think begins the minute after that child is born. I would say that I was woefully unprepared, but I do think that there are some natural instincts that just kick in. I think also if you had planned to become pregnant, I think you also have in your mind some of the ways that you want to parent. I remember having a conversation with my wife like, "All right, which one of us is going to be the disciplinarian." I'm pretty sure that we both decided it was going to be her and oddly enough, it's me. It's just, I'm like, "How did that happen?"
There's some of those conversations I think that you have before that are maybe the precursors to the parenting conversations that you have later on, but I was absolutely focused on, "This is the day this child is going to be born and let's just get to that point." Then everything else is in some respects, I guess catching up to what's happening and learning on the fly. I guess, one thing in particular and I'll get a little bit more into it later on is the whole, "Now that your child is born, hey, by the way, you need to wake that kid up every two hours," and just all of those things. That's when you're learning on that portion gets massively accelerated. Yes, I was very much focused on the actual event itself. Looking back on that, what do you wish that you had known before you became a father?
Jim: What I didn't expect and to your point about the event or to be-- You were talking about just the event in the day. I think I was more prepared for the day than anything else. I think what I've reflected on before is that the mother becomes a mother over nine months and I think dads just become dads, the moment the kids are born. In some ways that's not true. Mostly, we are support for the mother and the mother's developing this nurturing relationship and then all of a sudden we're dads. I think that preparing for that moment was more of the emphasis for me. As you said, trying to figure out what we do as dad after the fact was a little bit more confusing and a little bit more as I drink it from a fire hose.
I think the most important thing that I guess that I didn't expect about being a parent and it's not necessarily being a father, but being a parent is how much it would change my life. Yes, it changed my life in the way that people talk about religious experiences or like they talk about becoming a parent, but it really changed my life in the day to day, the schedules, as you said, getting up every three hours, the demands, the obligations, the responsibilities. The larger responsibilities like, "I got to stay healthy," and the smaller responsibilities like, "I got to get home on time. I can't make that extra phone call or whatever it is." Then obviously, the sleep changes. We've talked about that and how demanding that is at the very beginning. Then all the waterfall consequences of that. Those realigned priorities and how that changes the things that I'm going to do for leisure and how I use my free time and things like that.
What was very clear to me was when the second was born, it became clear to me how much I was trying to hold onto some semblance of control. I had my exercise schedule, I had my work schedule, I had my commuting schedule, whatever it is. I was really trying to force do a mashup of not being a parent and the demands of being a parent. When the second was born, I was like, "That's it all bets are off. This is not anything that I've got any control over at this moment." That was it. That was refreshing in a way and it helped me understand how much I was-- I don't want to say I was fighting the process, but just trying to just grinding gears and trying to manage things in a way that I obviously couldn't at the time.
The other thing that, and this is maybe something that comes later, but I did have those other dads that we formed a small community with. I didn't understand how much my social life and my wife's social life would revolve around my kids. That's not a good thing or a bad thing. I think it's natural for parents to hang around other parents. The friends that I had that were, or are not parents, they live different lives, they live different lifestyles. They can spend their time differently. It just becomes a different medium for social interaction.
Whether it's my daughter's friends and how we interact with their families, or whether it's just interacting with other parents and then watching our children interact that way, I didn't realize that that was going to be the case. Then all the other things that we talk about as parents, the all joy, no fun. They grow up so fast. Where does the time go? All those things I had heard and could intellectually understand, but again, it's not something that I could really understand without experiencing it. It is so in a way I can give that advice, but it's really just something to look out for it, so I don't think it's anything that you can really prepare for other than to know that it's going to happen. Go ahead.
Dave: I wanted to go back on something you had said because it made me think about something. It sounds like, between the first and the second, there was still this desire to keep your pre-child life as intact as possible. Sometimes you hear about people saying, "My life now revolves around the kids and I feel like I've lost the sense of self in some respect right now that everything is now about the kids." Did you ever feel like you lost a part of yourself in having kids or that it was just maybe an evolution of who you are as a person?
Jim: I think more like an evolution, but I have heard about how some parents have a grieving process or things that changed. I don't think I had that experience. You said, try to force or try to hang onto my life. It wasn't really that desperation kind of thing. It was more like, "That's just what I did. That was my schedule. That was my routine. That's where my head was." I felt like I had to keep things rolling in the way that they were before. Not in like you said, hanging onto an old self. That wasn't necessarily the case, but it was like I said, just trying to mash up those two things. I don't think that it really affected me in that way, but I do know parents that have had some very explicit grieving around that, and good for them. I'm sure that's a healthy thing.
Dave: The other thing is, as I mentioned before, the sleep. I think that for me, the sleep and not really fully understanding the impact of the sleep deprivation was a bit of that was a learning piece for me. We did that episode, episode number two, where we covered off on sleep. I think you lose until the child's six years old, you're basically losing sleep for the first six years of your life. Then since we've had two, maybe another extension. Just learning to live with not as much sleep as you want has been a little bit brutal.
I think that was a thing for me. Also understanding how little time that you really do have. Despite all these parents, I suddenly felt that, well, this kid's going to sleep for whatever, 12, 16 hours a day. There has got to be time for me to get stuff done. Just there isn't. It's amazing because when the kids are asleep, it's like, all right, it's time to wash the clothes. It's time to do dishes, time to clean up the house. All of the stuff that you're not able to get done, even when there's two parents trying to watch one kid, it's amazing how much one kid can just demand of your attention.
Certainly, it's two people. I think also as you're both sort of like, Okay. I tried this, nothing I can chew works. What do you think? That parenting as a team sport. I think still to this day, that the sense of the fact that I don't have as much free time as I would like to this day, I think is still a bit of a struggle that I'm facing. We discussed this on the challenges of being a father podcast. That is one that I really, it's not even that I underestimated. It's just, I didn't realize that here we are eight years later that I would still be going through that.
I guess maybe the other part of that too, is that two kids is not two times the work. It's way more than that.
Jim: Exponential.
Dave: Right. That is something that I actually had not thought about when we had our second. I was like, well, we already got this kid handled. Like how bad can it be? It's way more than two times the work. Thosw were the kind of lack of timepiece that I totally didn't get.
Jim: Before being a parent, I'd have my goals. The things that I was going to do today. I'm going to do these three things today. I had to change that to I'm going to do these three things this week. I think at this point, it's all right, these are the three things I'm getting done this month. The goals and the projects are becoming more complex obviously, but I've had to really adjust my expectations about what I can accomplish.
Dave: It's funny you mentioned goals. I had this planner to keep myself organized and this guy's like, here's all this knowledge that helps you live a better life. Part of it is every day one thing that you should be thankful for. If you think about it every day, sometimes it's a struggle, but there are some days I'm like, I am thankful that my kids ate dinner. That is literally the most thankful thing that I can be for the entire day, that is a win. Tonight was actually a win, they ate really well. Those little things along the way that actually you talked about this.
The other thing that I didn't recognize pre-parenting was that, I guess to put it in business terms, all the ops of your life are just going to go, they're going to go sideways. The schedules and the meals, and just the way that you've run your life up until the time that that child is born, all of it's out the window. Maybe you can find a little bit of time for a workout, but before I had kids, I worked out at night, 10 o'clock at night.
Now I got kids I'm working out at like six in the morning. It's not ideal. It's the only time I can find to do it. I think that if I didn't have kids, I'd probably still work out at night, but that's just-- that's all that operations-related stuff about how they just throw your schedule off of what you'd ideally like to have it be.
Jim: You had mentioned it earlier and I think this is also something I didn't realize. I was and I think a lot of parents, I was concerned about what kind of a parent I would be. I know that we all have modeling from our parents and from the other adults in our lives, but it was, I just didn't know. I just didn't know what kind of parent I would be and what was surprising and maybe to a relief, and you kind of indicated this earlier is just how innate it is. It's got to be some kind of hard, deep-wired biology about it. It was interesting to see how that played out and to really feel it and to understand that there's a deeper purpose.
It's not so cerebral. I guess that's what I'm saying. I felt like it was going to be a cerebral thing and it just wasn't. It's something that's much more innate.
Dave: One of the things that I have realized through this podcast, and we've talked a little bit about this is I think the term that keeps coming to mind for me is the phrase of intentional parenting. There are certainly some innate things. Again, if you think about that Maslow's hierarchy. Once you've gotten down, okay, I can change the diapers and I can feed the kid. Then as they get older, okay. Whatever I can communicate with the child. I think at a certain point, then you can-- you can get in front of the problems.
This is some of the stuff that I think we try and do is like, okay, we know that when they're nine, the girls are going to have, there's going to be more pressure to move away from sciences and math and stuff like that. We're trying to do what we can now to make sure that they are not going to shy away from those areas if that's something that they want to do. I think that intentional parenting is so important to-- there are certainly things that I've backed into, from a parenting perspective, but I'd like to think that most of the decisions that I make are intentional.
There's a reason behind it. It's not that well, this was the easiest path, but that there is an actual end game that I have in mind when I say, "Hey, this is why we're going to do X, or this is why we're not doing Y." Is that there really is an intentional thought through thing. Even the types of board games that I pick. It's funny, we had a friend that gave us a board game and we're cleaning up the house recently. I'm like, I just want to get rid of this thing so badly. I don't feel like it. Yes, it sort of entertains the kids, but I don't feel like it adds any educational value whatsoever.
Truthfully, not all games need to be like that but every single one of the games that I've purchased and we must have around, I don't know, 30 or 40 in the house. These board games and card games, there's a very specific reason. I can look at any of those games and say, this is why I bought that game. This might've been something I bought two or three years ago. This is why I bought that game. This is what I'm hoping that the kids will get out of it. That piece about, I think there certainly is something to the innate ability to parent.
Then I think again, what I've learned through this podcast is also, I feel like there's also a level of intentional parenting on top of that, that says, "Hey, I know that this is coming down the line. Or this is where I'd like to be with my child in X number of years." It's funny. I keep thinking about the fact that she's almost going to be able to drive sooner rather than later. I'm like, oh God, how am I going to teach this? Literally, there are times when I'm driving and I'm like, man, when she's older this is an example of being ahead of those things before they happen and really trying to be proactive with how we parent I think is also something that--
I'm also not clear that that's something that I thought about before being a parent, but I guess maybe I've stumbled into that. I think we both and Tim on the podcast too, this is how we've developed as parents.
Jim: The driving thing is funny. Maybe it's just that our daughters are now eight, which is halfway to 16. I've been thinking about that. I've been driving around and thinking of what neighborhood would I use, what time of day would we-- It's funny that's come up.
Dave: I guess that leads me to I guess one of the other things that I've been thinking about is just how quickly time passes, that term the days are long, but the years are short. It's so true. Just blink an eye and she's eight. I remember when she was a baby, we used to go out all the time and people would say, "Your baby's so cute." I can remember that because it happened enough. I also remember because it never happened to our son, but that's one of those things where I think you just-- I can barely remember what the kids were like as toddlers and for my five-year-old, that was only a couple of years ago, but it feels like so far away.
I know that we're just going to wake up one day and we're going to be sending them off to college. I think it's shocking to think about that. Recently, as I've been spending time with the kids, I am actually thinking as I'm literally playing a board game or doing something, playing Playmobile or whatever, I'm thinking when they're older, what are they going to remember about their childhood? We haven't talked about this actually, but it goes back to something I thought about, and I've heard this with some grandparents that there are times when the grandparents, they're babysitting, but the interaction is really like, "Hey, they're just watching YouTube with their grandchildren."
It's very different. My mom, she's got a blog, call me grandma, where she does all this stuff with the kids. I think that to me is what my kids are going to remember of her when they're grown up, that we had all these experiences together and I remember that about my own grandmother even though she lived like whatever, 3000 miles away, we didn't see her all that often, but I remember when we were there together, we spent time together. It wasn't just like, all right, well watch TV while the adults speak. I think that that's so important for me is as what I'm thinking about sometimes I'm like, "oh, I'm so tired," I don't want to play another game or read another book and I think, you know what, I hope that in 10, 15, 20 years, when they look back on their childhood, they'll have these memories of us reading together of us playing board games and of me playing with them or going into the playground and those kinds of things.
I don't know why I've been thinking about that recently, but it really has become, it's not an all-encompassing thing, but I think about it quite a bit now, which I think is surprising. I don't know, maybe it's just a function of the fleeting nature of life in general but that's sort of what will they remember of their childhood and is it what I want them to remember? It just passes so quickly.
Jim: I think that's part of what this project is all about. You and I, and this whole discourse, I think for me, it's a process of mindfulness, trying to really be present knowing that these moments are precious and they're passing by and then as you said to make it intentional. When those moments are happening, what is it that we're doing? I have similar feelings about, for example, the five-year-old. I don't really remember a lot before I was five and so everything that's transpired so far, it's interesting to think that that's just gone. That's just blank memory for her.
This is when she's really going to remember her childhood home and when things happened and where we went on vacations and things like that. I feel like before that age, my job was to keep her safe and let her know that she was loved and those were the things that she was going to retain even if it's not intellectually and now I feel like there is a real responsibility to feed that experience in a way that's going to be healthy and productive and educational as you indicated.
Dave: One other thing about the fleetness of childhood that I think about is that each age is so dramatically different as you pass from one stage to the next and I guess I hadn't recognized that before it started to happen. My neighbor, she's got three kids and she's like, they move so quickly and that person that you knew at age three is gone at age four and is gone at age five. You get to know this person, and then in a blink of an eye, they're a different person and it keeps happening and my guess is right around, I don't know, probably when they're in their mid-teens is my guess, it starts to slow down.
Like there's a little bit more consistency in who they are or them, I don't know, maybe there might not be, we're not there yet. It feels like at this stage, because they're growing even their brains are growing all the way up for a while, but my guess is that at this stage, the changes happen faster and so if you don't cherish those moments, those little things are gone when you blink. I remember people saying terrible twos and everything, and thankfully we avoided the terrible twos, but I feel like every age is my favorite age, because there's always something new about the child, even if you've already gone through it with your first one. Even seeing the second child move from a crawl to a walk and from a walk to a run. Just the other day, he's like, look, I can jump on one foot and he actually can't yet, but he's trying.
Just those little things and you see how also just their mastery of their body changes and just their intellect and the kinds of the words that they're using and all of those things. It's interesting how quickly those things happen and that if you blink, and if you assume that it'll be there forever, you're going to be disappointed when it's gone because it just happens so quickly.
Jim: There's a phrase that I picked up earlier and it may be a little melodramatic or romantic or sappy or whatever, but I feel like summing up parenthood is one continuous heartbreak where I just fall wholly in love with this little girl and then the next day she's gone, but then I'm wholly in love with that one and then it changes and back to the mindfulness, and again, maybe teenage years are going to be different, but I don't miss the prior ages. It's not like, well, this one's terrible back when she was three, it was better.
As you said, every age is pretty precious, but it's just a matter of just staying in the moment, enjoying them when they do happen. I agree that the changes are profound and day-to-day, I may not recognize it, but well, week to week, maybe, month to month certainly see the changes, developmental changes.
Dave: One other thing that my neighbor had said early on because we moved in a little bit before our daughter was born. She said, you can never have enough photos and I actually found that even though I take tons and tons of pictures, it's still not enough. When our first child was born, we used Tinybeans, which was an app. I think Google photos wasn't even out yet and so Tinybeans basically it was just an app that reminded you every day to take a picture. Which was great, and also this was the time when people were doing all these like 365 retrospectives on their life in one picture a day.
It was also nice to be able to share with parents that were living abroad and that stuff and we used it regularly. To this day, even though my daughter's eight, I'm still getting flashback emails from Tinybeans. Honestly, it's probably the only email that I open religiously when I see flashbacks and everything and I look back, but we didn't do it for our second child and I regret it and it's not to say that we don't have photos of him, but I do like that app, that it just constantly reminds you and it does it more so than even Google does it too now, but I think Tinybeans has a more regular routine way of doing it.
I think that the point about Tinybeans is that trying to remind you, or not trying to, by trying to make you take a photo every day and remind you to take a photo every day, there are those things that you would have otherwise either forgotten to take pictures of or like, oh I've got plenty of time. They're two very distinctive things that I have always wanted to get back and I didn't take those pictures, but one was when our son was learning to run because they have that funny gait when they're learning to run. It's almost like a horse like they're galloping. [laughs]
I always liked seeing him do that. I don't think I really have any pictures or videos of that. Then the other one was a video when he was learning to spit, because actually for a while I was concerned that he was swallowing the toothpaste because he just couldn't spit and I would tell him to spit and instead of spitting, he would say spit, that's not it, but okay. I just thought that was so precious and I was like, oh, I've got plenty of times to do this. That is only a memory, I had never did the video because I'm like, "Well, we do this every single day," every night he does this and one day it was gone and it just never comes back, and they change so quickly.
I don't think you really recognize how fleeting that moment is until it's gone and then by that time it's too late. I think also maybe because he was the second one and I was taking so many pictures with the first I figured, "Oh, well there's still time." Like I think it might have further impacted or informed my thought that there was time. I think what I've realized now is that also through Tinybeans is that photos don't always need to be some vacation or celebration of some special moment. It's the banal daily life that is important.
I think we talked about this in the very first podcast about how to interact with your grandparents during COVID, but I got my parents a digital picture frame of Pixar and it's so easy to use and I've got so many photos that are just sitting on my computer. I'm like, I'm going to buy one, I'm going to order one because it integrates with Google photos, I can simply share my albums, which is how I've organized my photos anyway. Since I'm sharing them for my parents anyway.
At the end of every month, I basically just go through the previous month's photos, pick out the best ones and then send it over to their frame and so since I'm already doing that for them, I may as well do it for myself. It's important to also have a way to display those photos other than like, here is the kindergarten graduation that was so special. Again, I think that the special moments are actually the daily life moments. I can remember the vacations because they were special moments, but it's--
Jim: The daily.
Dave: Right, it's the daily stuff that you forget about unless you have that memory. I think that by having those photos popping up, whether it's a digital photo frame or otherwise, it just gives you that reminder that, oh yes, I remember that thing. Just even sometimes when I'm on Google photos, just sorting through the kids will come by and sit on my lap and we'll go through the month and "Oh, I remember that." It's just that way to jog everyone's memory and, and it does reinforce, I think the family group. What you have done as a group and the things, and again, it doesn't have to be the special trip. It could be the fact that all right last Friday we ate on the floor just to do something different or I don't know, whatever pick flowers or whatever it was. I think that's so important and it is something that I have probably neglected a little bit more than I should have. I have a couple of digital photo frames, but because you have to stick it on the memory card. It's such a pain to organize that. I think that's one of the big takeaways that I have, or that I would tell my younger self is, get that frame and get it set up sooner rather than later.
Jim: I did get that advice from another dad to just pick up the phone every once in a while, and just take a video of what's happening right then, a short one-minute video or two-minute video, they're just reading a book or we're just playing on the floor. Just not a special moment, not because something hilarious was happening or they looked really cute, or because we were on vacation, just something that happened that day. I've also fallen out practice of doing that. It's interesting to look back at those things because it captures that essence of the day-to-day that's slipping away.
Dave: I think also that if your plan is to take pictures of the daily routine, it does make you more mindful about what's happening in your day, because you're like-- at least for me, I think, is this a time to take a picture? It just makes me appreciate those moments a little bit more, I guess, that, hey, this might be the time or maybe not, or this might be the time. There are days, weeks where I go without taking pictures. In general, I would say, I probably have a picture every two or three days, but the organization gets insane, which is why I have to do it right afterwards. Again, I think it allows you to just focus.
I remember people would say about parents who are taking videos of their kids, in particular like, oh, stay in the moment, like get out your camera and focus on what's actually happening. I don't personally feel like taking a video of the kids takes me away from the experience, because sometimes I'm not actually looking at the camera because it's a phone. It's not like you have to whip out your massive [unintelligible 00:31:59]. I'm not necessarily looking through the actual camera, I'm actually looking beyond it. I just frame it and I just hold my hands still and look beyond it. Do you ever find that doing that takes you out of the moment?
Jim: I don't know. With the kids, I was thinking about people who use their camera phone at a concert or at the fireworks or something, that's great to capture that moment, but for me, I'm never going to look at that again. In that moment, it is taking me out of the experience. Similar to you, and it's just I don't think it takes me out of the moment. I used to have that fear or that concern that by turning into a photographer or videographer, I'm not there to experience it, but that's not true. I think maybe it's just practice as smartphones have become so ubiquitous and we all got camera. I think I'm in practice of that, so I don't feel like I step out of the moment when I do that and thankfully so. I think some of the videos, they're there to remind me even more so of the moment rather than supplanting the moment.
Dave: I don't think it has to be an epic video with the perfect lighting. I think that's where people also get caught up in the lost in the moment because they're like, the lighting's not right, or I got to move over here to get the better angle. It's just, get it on camera, who cares? It's great if you've got an eye, and you can do all that stuff. I think that's to me, because as you talk about the concerts, I do think about when the kids were pre-COVID in school and they would have their after-school or end of the year concerts where they show off all they've learned.
I do feel like sometimes I did get a little bit taken out of the moment because I got to get my camera in the right place to get on the tripod. I know that other parents are expecting me to send the video out afterward. It's like, am I an employee now? What just happened here? I think those are the moments that are a little bit harder. Actually, I guess one other thing that I would tell my younger self is to as much as possible be involved in the school activities, like going into the classroom if that's available. That's what like, this year what I've noticed is, I've no idea who's in my kids' class.
There are kids in her class, I was like, I didn't even know that kid was in her class. It's a small class. It's like with 18 people. I don't know any of these kids. It's just been different because in years past, I always volunteer for the first field trip of the year. I usually go on two or three because I volunteer to take all the pictures and stuff like that, so I know who the kids are. I know they're quirks, especially when you're taking pictures of kids, you get a sense of which ones are the hams, and which ones you can get candid of. It is a little bit of a view into all of the kids in addition to how your child is interacting with those other kids. That's a view that you really don't get otherwise.
The relationship that the teacher has with your child is so different from the relationship that you have with your child, because they're free to do whatever they want. They are going to push the boundaries or not, but I think she's very different at school with her teacher than she is at home. By going into the classroom, if that's available to you, you get a little bit of a glimpse of what your child is like when you're not there, I think. Also, how the other kids are. At the end of the day, those kids in the class, they're friends or they're mortal enemies or not, but it's nice to get a sense of, who else is in the class, and how they're all interacting.
If I had known that, I don't think I did anything in like pre-K3. If I had really known that, I would've tried to have made the time, especially in pre-K3 as that was her first year of school. I think the first time I was really in a class was pre-K4 or kindergarten, and so I look back and go, "Oh, I wish I had known that. I think that would've--" Just been an interesting opportunity to see what she's like. The last thing for me, I think in terms of things that I wish I had known before being a parent was not to sweat the little things like really the milestones.
I see this time on, especially on Reddit for new parents that are like, "My kid is one week behind the milestone, do I need to go see the doctor?" That is a new parent question, like calm down, milestones, don't stress it out. It's a guideline. It's plus or minus, and just because your kid hits the milestone before it does not mean they're a genius. Just because they hit it after doesn't mean they're going to need work after school, and need to see a tutor, or a specialist or whatever. I think that it's one of those things, I think certainly as a new parent, if you're into guidelines and milestones.
I think all new parents are, we all talk about their ages in months because that's how all these things are measured, which is just weird as opposed to a year and a half or whatever. It's like, that's just a little bit more refinement on how to measure my kid's age, and to understand whether or not they're hitting the milestones at the right time. Again, if you're multiple months past the milestone, then absolutely you should be talking to your pediatrician. I think the importance of the milestones is really overstated for new parents. That is one thing that we did worry a little about, oh, has she turned over yet? Has she crawled yet? Is first words yet?
Honestly, I don't remember where she was in any of that spectrum, but she's doing fine, he's doing fine. Actually, our son was a slow talker because he at the time was exposed to five languages. I remember every time we go to the pediatrician, I would say, "Okay, look, this is a thing that I am moderately concerned about and what do I need to be watching out for?" Every single time I'd go in with that for a couple of years, I've talked to the school psychologist and like, "What do you think?" I've randomly met people in my child development, and I'm like, "Hey, here's my deal. " Or, "Here's my kid's deal." That is one that I absolutely did.
Again, it's one of those things where you don't need to sweat that when they're ready. Again, because every kid's different because of different exposure like monolingual versus getting five languages, they're going to vary on those milestones, so just don't sweat it. I think that is one run point of a lot of stress for parents.
Jim: I agree. I think it was our pediatrician that really guided us. I would've been over-concerned with milestones if we didn't get that coaching from the pediatrician.
Dave: Actually, the other thing that I think about too, because you see this all the time on like round-ups of funny parent tweets of the week, and stuff like that is the eating stuff. We've talked about this a lot actually, that I feel like I've trained my kid that this is a restaurant, "Oh, you're not going to eat that? Let me serve you this." Like, "What will you eat?" If I had to do it over again, because I think this is more of an issue of both spouses being on the same pages is that, I really would've tried to talk to my wife a little bit more about why I think it's important to be like, look, eat this, or don't eat.
Here we are now, even with the eight-year-old, she's got whatever, eight years is not quite because she doesn't understand all that. Maybe three solid years of saying, "Oh, if I don't eat this thing, I'll have another option." It culminated in one night I made four dishes. It was only supposed to be one dish, I made four dishes. Even tonight the kids wanted two separate things. I'm like, "No." You want the same protein, so here's the deal. You will either have to both agree on how I make that protein, or I'm not going to make it for you at all and you're going to eat this other thing that I'm planning on doing. They sort of compromised, but not really. It did work out where I wasn't making three distinct dishes. I made two distinct dishes.
I think that's part of the real struggle that parents have is saying, "Oh well my kid's not eating." Your kid's not going to starve. They're not. I think that this is one of those things where my wife and I needed to get on the same page earlier on. I'm not clear that we're still necessarily on the same page, but I kind of feel like, he'll eat when he's hungry. If it's not something that he likes, eventually he'll eat something and he'll learn. I think that because of that, he just hasn't, he's grown up in a place where he's got options. Now that we're trying to wean him off of that, it's just that much harder because he's like, "I don't want to eat that."
Just this past week he ate barely anything for lunch and hardly anything for dinner. I'm like, look, I'm not going to sweat it. I just-- I don't care. This is how I grew up. Eat it or don't eat it. It's not my problem. It's not to say that I'm not going to feed him anything at all, but I make it a fairly nutritious meal. It's not like I'm saying, alright starve. I think some of that also goes to speak to-- Certainly, right now he is very stubborn and he won't even try stuff. That's a problem. You don't have to eat it, you don't have to like it, but you have to try it. If you try it and you don't like it that's different. Then I can find something else for you, but if you're not even going to try it, then you're not going to get anything else.
That's something that he has to learn. Again, if I had to do it over again, I would absolutely have that conversation as we're moving the oldest one to solids and then just getting on the same page. We're making one meal. She's going to eat it or not, but she'll learn. In the long run, not only will it make our lives easier, but I think it exposes her, well, both of them, to a wider range of foods because I cook a whole bunch of stuff so it expands their palate. I also think it will again, just get them to be more open to trying new foods because they know that this is it. You either eat it or you don't even if it's new. I don't make a ton of foods over and over again so there's constantly going to be something new. I think it's important for them to sort of, have that mentality of alright, I'll try it and we'll see what happens.
[background music]
For more insights into our experiences with our first-borns, you can check out Episode 2 on sleep deprivation that we mentioned, Episode 4, we had a podcast on what to do pre, during, and post-hospital stay and Episode 15, how to support new parents. We hope you found today's episode informative. If you'd like to support the podcast and hear more discussions around fatherhood please subscribe and drop us a review. If you have any questions, hit us up on the Facebook page, facebook.com/papaestfatigue. That's P-A-P-A-E-S-T-F-A-T-I-G-U-E. Thanks for listening.
[music]
[00:43:24] [END OF AUDIO]