So you're having a girl
Photo by Gift Habeshaw on Unsplash
In today’s episode, Dave and Jim discuss being a father to girls
During this episode we’ll discuss:
Our initial thoughts on learning we were having girls
Specific things we do because we have daughters
Things that might be harder with girls
Advice for fathers who may be apprehensive about having a daughter
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Transcript
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Dave: In today's episode, we're discussing what it's like having a daughter.
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Dave: Hi, everyone. Welcome to the Papa est Fatigue Podcast, the Podcast for dads, by dads. I've heard from some soon to be dads that they're concerned about having a daughter. Concern is maybe not the right word, I guess it's more like they're unsure about having a girl. They're not really sure how to relate, and maybe those dreams of playing sports and doing, "Guy stuff," might be a little bit less sure for them.
Since Jim and I both have daughters, we thought we'd discuss our experience with having girls. First, here's my deal. I'm Dave, I have an eight year old daughter, and a four year old son.
Jim: I'm Jim, I have an eight year old daughter and a five year old daughter.
Dave: Here's some benefits that we found for having a strong father-daughter relationship. Girls are more assertive without being aggressive, they have better grades in school, they're more likely to be admitted to pursue higher education, they feel better about themselves, they feel more confident in relationships with partners in general.
Also that the relationship with the father sets their expectations for their future relationships, how they're going to be treated by a spouse, what they expect out of those relationships, which are super important. Jim, talk to us a little bit about what your first thoughts were on having a daughter. Did you find out in advance? Did you have a preference? What was that all like for you?
Jim: Thinking on this topic earlier today, I was remembering that time, and it feels like a long time ago. I had to put myself in the place of being a guy who is expecting to have a kid, because now I've got a daughter, and it's exactly what it is. I was remembering that I had a little bit of apprehension, and so I don't think I had a preference. I'm pretty sure I didn't have a preference as far as a boy or a girl. I was just going to be happy to be a father.
In reflecting on that time, I think I did have some apprehension about having a girl. We did find out at the ultrasound, and it was just new. I have an older sister, but I don't know a lot about girls, as far as being a parent of a girl. It was an adjustment, but I think it happened pretty quickly. Once I knew, it felt like pieces fell into place. For a second one, I found out that we were having a second girl, the second child I was hoping that we would have a girl.
I felt like sisters were a good relationship, we wanted to be able to have the siblings play together. Not that a son and a daughter wouldn't be able to play together, but it felt like-- Also, we had all the girls' clothes.
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Dave: Don't underestimate that.
Jim: We had a whole kit for girls. It felt like it was a natural thing. Then the older one's got a cousin that's about the same age, so I felt like he and she could have that familial boy-girl relationship. She could know what it's like to have a brother even though it was just a cousin. That apprehension went away pretty quickly, and then I just embraced it. It felt like new ground and something I wanted to learn about.
Dave: I think early on, the one thing you needed to know was what is a wipe front to back, right? If we have a girl, and a diaper, I think that's the most important thing about having a girl at the beginning. That's all you need to know in the very first stages of life, front to back, and then other than that, it's all the same. I pushed really hard for us not to know the gender in advance. I've always felt like surprises in life, you just never know which way they're going to go.
I always felt like this would be a great surprise to have, just not knowing the gender in advance. This was a long discussion we had, but eventually I managed to convince my wife that we would wait. The second one, we found out as soon as possible, but for the first one I got my way. We all wanted a daughter. Growing up, my closest friends have always been girls and women. That was my comfort zone, and actually I felt the other way.
If I had a son like, "What do I do with this kid?" It's just a little bit funny to have those role reversals, but absolutely my comfort zone, and so I felt really good about having a daughter. Then once we had the daughter, and we get that checked off, having a son or a daughter on the second one was like, "Hey, either way, we're cool." It was nice to have a son just so you can see the difference, and I do think you're right, that the girls and boys, like a brother-sister versus a sister-sister versus a brother-brother, those relationships, I do think they play differently together, they meet in the middle.
Although my son plays with-- I think he actually played with my daughter's dolls more than she ever did. Despite the fact that he has a Captain America and a Spider Man, he tends to play with the girl's dolls. It's just interesting to see how that happened. I'm curious, throughout all of this, have you found that there're specific things that you do because you have a daughter?
Jim: I think there are, and I had to think about whether I'd be doing something similar had I have a son. I'm not sure, but I think some of the things we've talked about before, wanting to encourage the sciences, working on self-esteem, looking at that effect that happens to girls around age nine or 10, when their self-esteem starts to be hurt, probably around the science and math. I'm trying to encourage those things, let them know that they can be scientists and engineers and astronauts and all those things.
Just making sure that my implicit bias, anything that I'm not aware of, one of the things that comes up is, early on, I decided that I was going to say girls, instead of like, "Hey, do you guys want to do this?" Just say, "Do you girls." It has becomes second nature, and now there may be a mixed group of boys and girls, and I've got to consciously think boys and girls, not, "Hey, girls, let's all go anywhere." I don't know. They talk about representation and being seen or whatever, I feel like it's my small part of doing that. It's just acknowledging that they're girls, and treating them appropriately as far as a child rather than a boy or a girl.
I'm also very aware that when I'm doing things like using power tools, or building a fire, or constructing something, they're interested, and I think all kids just want to spend time with their parents, and so I use that as an opportunity to explain what I'm doing, and just talk about it. "This is how you use the tools, this is how you build a fire," and in the same way that I would do, I think, if I had a son. Being very conscious of just because I'm the the dad, and I'm doing those things, doesn't mean they're things that they can't do, and trying to draw them into that experience as well.
Dave: Early on, I tried to avoid some of the more gender stereotypical rules about toys and things like that, so I did buy my daughter a fire truck, which she never touched, and a bunch of construction toys, which she never touched. As I mentioned before, my son actually plays with some of her dolls more than she does, and that's okay. I realized that as much as you might want to direct them, the kids just they're oriented in the way that they're oriented. We tried that early on.
Like you, I'm particularly cognizant about math and science, and so a lot of the way that I try and talk about that will be through-- Sometimes it's answering questions. I think you just said we were talking about astronauts, right? We were talking about space. Oh, the last time with the Dragon capsule docked with the space station, we watched that live, and then we started looking about who the astronauts were, and we focused on some of the female astronauts for my daughter.
The other way I look at that is in the kinds of books that we read. One of the things that I've been doing recently is to say, "Hey, I borrowed this book from the library for a very specific reason, and I want you, as we're reading this book, to tell me why. What is the lesson here that I'm trying to teach you through this book?" Might be about perseverance or any of the life social skills. I also look for books with strong female characters.
When she was younger, I think one of the things that all the kids were reading was The Princess in Black Series. They're all princesses that are-- They're also heroes, which was fun to not-- It flips the whole princess thing on its head there. The alter ego is their superhero, and then they're also a princess by day. Then other series that we liked were the Jasmine Toguchi. I think she's probably ready for Harry Potter, and I think Hermione's a nice role model.
Then also some of the STEM books that are out there, which are really great, like the Ada Lace series, which is one that we've read. I think there's five of those. We're banged through all of those. The Goldieblox Series, which I think is also another good one. Really trying to focus on making sure that she has these stories that she can hear about that reinforced again the fact that there are these women that are more than capable of being in science and math, and they're excelling at it.
I think that's really important, just to have that daily reminders that it's not always something that has to be done in school where it's like, "Okay, today we're going to learn about Sally Ride, the first female astronaut in space." I think there can be a way of making that a more daily reminder that she can do anything she wants. I'm curious, now that we've had eight years of experience with girls, do you think that you've run across anything yet that you feel might be harder for you because you have a daughter?
Jim: I don't think anything so far. My biggest apprehension I think is when they get a little bit older. When they hit puberty, and then high school. I was remembering I saw a guy wearing shirts. It's something like you don't scare me, I have four daughters. I think those teenage years are going to be more challenging mostly, I think just because I don't have any shared experience.
It's not anything that I can relate to firsthand. I think maybe you and I'll have a podcast and we'll talk about it then. Those relationships with teenage daughters I think are going to be very different than relationships with 8-year-old daughters, obviously. I'm anticipating that the biggest challenges are probably ahead.
Dave: I think it's actually going to start even sooner than that. It feels to me like I've heard that it starts at like 11 or 12, and I'm like, "I'm not mentally prepared for that at all." I would say that so far one of the things to me, that's been a bit of a challenge, and I mentioned this in a previous podcast about just the challenges of being a dad is that right now our daughter just finished up second grade.
I think that I'm starting to see more of the social dynamic on the school ground, play out a little bit more than I was maybe expecting at this age. My daughter has had a couple of times where she's come home crying and I'm like, "What's going on?" Actually, it's really more that I-- She comes home and she's out of sorts, and I know something's wrong. We have those conversations.
I'm like, "Look just, if you can tell me what's wrong, I'm not going to be mad. I just want to help you out. If you don't want me, I won't talk to your mom about it. This can just be between you and me." What I'm starting to try and do here is establish that confidant relationship that she can tell me anything, and that I won't get upset, but sometimes you just need a release valve.
In these conversations and really it's been her worst days around things where the last one was just a couple of months ago she came home and she said, "These three girls said they didn't like me, and they didn't want to be my friend." I'm like, that's brutal to hear as a parent, because you're not really sure. Personally, I wasn't really sure how to deal with that. I gave her some examples in my life when I was younger, and how I handled it.
It's not clear to me yet whether this is a girl thing, but I certainly don't remember having as many of the social challenges, shall we say, growing up. I had a best friend from first grade to seventh grade and we had two fights in those years. I don't want to say she's having fights, but she's already had this disruption in her social sphere. So far, what I've found is generally these things, literally the next day, they blow over.
Certainly, in that time and in that moment, that is a terrible thing to hear. That these girls don't, and you don't know why? She doesn't know why. There's no reason given. They just said, "We don't want to play with you, or we don't like you." Then they walk away. Again, like I said, I'm not clear if that is a cool girl thing or what that's just the way kids have developed or what, or if it's-- It certainly wasn't something like I said, I remember dealing with.
Those are the challenges and I'm expecting like you that those are going to get increasingly difficult to be able to respond to as they get older as I think just their whole social world gets more complicated and people hold grudges, and then social media and all of those things. That's I think where I'm most concerned. I think certainly the toughest days are ahead, but I feel like I'm starting to get a glimpse of some of the things that are going to start to create just more challenges as a father.
I think a lot of this is going to be the interpersonal relationships that are going to be the issues that we're going to see. Jim, do you have any advice for fathers who may be apprehensive about having a daughter where like, "It's coming, I know I'm going to have to deal with it? How should I think about this?"
Jim: It may be easier for us at our generation in that things are more open, or there's more opportunities for women. I think this would be a whole lot harder to do 20 years ago, 30 years ago, 50 years ago. I think that the difference between parenting a daughter and parenting a son would be much more pronounced. I feel like particularly this young age, they're just kids. Yes, there are gender differences, but most importantly, they are children, and how do we nurture them and how do we spend time with them as dads and as parents?
I don't want to share advice is what I'd want to say, I think being a father far surpasses whether you're father to a boy or a girl, and to me, and I think for a lot of dads, it just became a natural thing. It was parenting your child and addressing their needs, and trying to be nurturing in that way regardless of whether they're a boy or girl.
Dave: I think oftentimes soon-to-be-parents spin out of control about the what if's, and it's like, "Once you get there, you'll figure it out," versus the like, "How do I handle this potential thing that may or may not happen?" I think just like you, once you're faced with the challenge, you'll just step up and you'll handle it. It doesn't really matter whether they're a boy and a girl. Look, truthfully the short of having like a peeing for distance contest.
There's not anything that you can't do with a girl that you can do with a boy. Sports, Lego, all that, it's not a gender-specific thing. I think the other thing to remember is that if you think you want a son, because you're like, "Well, I play sports." Just because you have a son doesn't mean they're going to want to play sports either. Again, I point my son who sometimes plays with dolls, but then he will pick up Legos, or he'll run around the house pretending to shoot guns.
Just because you have a son, it doesn't mean they're going to do, "Guy things," and just because you have a girl doesn't mean they're going to do, "Girl things." You will see who they are, and you'll meet them where they are. If you have any hobbies that you think are again, "Guy things," you just introduce those things. Like you were saying with the tools and the fire, kids are super curious about what you're doing as an adult.
That's a lot of the times they'll come up and they'll just get interested, and you can foster that love of whatever hobby that you might be concerned with, with them. One of the things that I do with the kids is I'm into photography so, I gave my daughter a little Polaroid, and I think my son's probably ready so that we have this sort of kids digital, like that, it's a Vtech camera. I think we're probably ready to just go out on a day trip to just go shoot pictures all day.
I think it's really just exposing the kids to the activity that you would like to do with them, regardless of whether they're a boy or a girl. I think that's the first stage. I wouldn't really worry about that. I guess I would say that, as we have both actually already indicated that our kids are young, so we haven't quite had to deal with the challenges of dating and all that stuff.
As I mentioned a little bit earlier, my goal is to set up a relationship where she can confide in me. I think that that's what we want to do as parents. Just to create that relationship so that your daughter can come to you when she has an issue, and it's not necessarily boy or girl-specific. Ultimately I think if you can create that relationship where they know that you are confidant, and that you're listening to them and that you understand their point of view and all that stuff. That I think will make that relationship stronger.
At the end of the day, that's really all that matters. If you have a strong relationship with your daughter or son, it doesn't matter if they're a girl or a boy, or what they're into or what they're not into. That you will have a successful relationship, and you'll have a contributing member of society, a strong child. I think that that's really, the focus is just making sure that you're building a relationship, whether that's through play or talking or whatever, and that ultimately, it won't matter that you might've wanted a son, but you ultimately came up with a girl.
I can't think of a single of the parents that I've spoken with, who I know who initially wanted boys, but who got girls. I can't think of a single one who was like, "Man, now that I've had this daughter for eight years, I wish it was a boy." You get over that and you move on and you embrace the child that you have. Again, while you may be worried about it, once that daughter is born, and once you start getting into it, it'll be fine. You'll have it all figured out.
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Dave: We hope you found today's episode informative. If you'd like to support the podcast and hear more discussions around fatherhood, please subscribe and drop us a review. If you have any questions, hit us up on the Facebook page, facebook.com/papaestfatigue that's P-A-P-A-E-S-T-F-A-T-I-G-U-E. Thanks for listening.
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