Musings on Fatherhood
Photo by Caroline Hernandez on Unsplash
In today’s episode Jim and Dave go a little off script and cover a wide range of fatherhood topics.
During this episode we’ll discuss:
Jim discusses how he teaches his kids about gratitude
The importance of family dinners
Small ways we find time to carve out quality time with our kids
The importance of moments of mindfulness and how quickly kids change
Making sure to record the little things
Dave discusses how he uses all those photos of his kids
Resources mentioned in the podcast:
The Advantages of a Bilingual Education
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TRANSCRIPT
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Dave: In today's episode we're covering a whole range of parenting topics, from how to teach gratitude to how we find moments to carve out some quality time.
Hey, everyone. Welcome to the Papa est Fatigué podcast, the podcast for dads by dads. Today we're doing something a little bit different. Our normal podcasts are planned out and have a very specific theme, but after we're done recording we always end up continuing the conversation in a more free-flowing fashion, where we're jumping from topic to topic. This episode is our first in a series we're calling Musings on Fatherhood.
Jim's going to kick us right off talking about their Sunday night family dinner.
Jim: The family meeting on Sunday, it's fairly structured. During the week the girls will eat separately and my wife and I will probably eat afterwards, but we all sit down, we eat together, and the girls set the table. Then we start with compliments and appreciation, where we go around the table and everybody says one nice thing about somebody, and then some appreciation for, "Thank you for doing that this week," or something along those lines.
Then we go through the schedule for the week, talk about what's going to happen. Then we have an open time, any other family business we need to talk about. Sometimes there are some discipline things we need to talk about, or if the girls have got some questions. Then we do allowance, and that's the end. It's not formal but it's structured, and you're right, it’s a ritual and a certain rhythm to it that feels important. Not something I did in my family growing up, and I'm not sure that my wife did in her family, but I'm pretty proud of it. It's pretty nice.
Dave: It's interesting. I had purchased a Panda Planner. It's one of these things that helps you get organized, and you talk about what are you going to accomplish for the day and what went well in your day. Then at the week, you plan out what you're doing for the week and what went well last week. One of the things that is in there that you're supposed to do every day is what are you grateful for? There was something else. The guy who founded this was like, "There's a ton of research around how important it is to recognize the things that you're grateful for because it makes you appreciate the things that you have."
I think that for most of us, we don't think about that stuff. Maybe we think about it once a year for Thanksgiving, if you have that ritual of going around the table like, "What are you thankful for?" That's all, "Thankful for my health." It's super broad and that means nothing, but to have that conversation on a weekly basis, I think, reinforces the little daily things. You can't be like, "Oh, I'm happy for my health," every single week. It focuses you on the little things that you appreciate. I think that the study was like it just makes you a happier person because you're a--
Jim: Gratitude.
Dave: Yes, it's gratitude and your glass is half full. Like, "I see all of these great things that are happening. There's a ton of other stuff that is beyond my control and maybe that makes me sad, but here are the things that make me feel good." It's a way of recognizing that on a regular basis once a week. I really like that, and I think that's something that we might try over here. It's funny because our schedule is so funky, and I think you also go through these phases where I'm guessing that sometimes it's just three of you for dinner as your wife is crunching on work. It's not unfortunate, it just is what it is for my wife, but there's a little bit less seasonality in what she does.
For instance, right now it's pretty frequent that I'm cleaning before dinner. I make the dinner, I clean up, and I put the kids to sleep because she's just working the whole time. Tonight I did it all, and she came to dinner at 8:30 when I was putting the kids to sleep. I told the oldest one, I'm like, "Look, you don't have to stick around for the bedtime story. Why don't you go spend some time with mom? Call her so you have a little bit of alone time." They saw each other for an hour in the morning and that was basically it. My wife came back from work and she was working all through the night.
I think also it's so important to have those moments to really focus and sit down. I certainly grew up that way. It sounds like you probably grew up that way, where meals were always together. I remember my house. I was talking to some of my friends from high school because they would come over, and they're like, "We know that whenever we go to your house for dinner, dinner's like an hour and a half, two hours." It's just what it is because we just sit there and talk. It didn't matter it was a weekday or a weekend. It was one hour and you'd have to work your homework around it and you'd still have to get dishes done, but that was family time and it was important.
It can be a struggle for us over here simply because of the schedule that my wife is on, but it is important. There are times when it's just the three of us, and I really just want to turn on the TV and just let them watch TV so I don't have to deal with it. I always think like, "Well, at the same time, here's an opportunity for me to just have a little bit of time with them." I always fight that urge and I always end up at the end of the meal going, "Well, that was the right move."
It was definitely the right move to just have those conversations. I learned something new about my kid, and we talked about school. It forces you to run the whole conversation because there's no other adult, but yes, I think that family time is so important. I really like what you guys have done, so I think we have to figure out how to fit it into our lifestyle as well.
Jim: You make the good point that it's dedicated time. It's priority time, we make it a priority. I think we've only skipped it once, and we just skipped it this week because my wife was really sick. We've done it every single weekend and it's got a nice rhythm to it, what to expect for the week. Then you were talking about the gratitude. There's the gratitude and the compliments; compliments and appreciation. I say something nice about you that fills up your bucket, so to speak, then I say thank you for something that fills up my bucket as an exercise in gratitude.
It's a practice. Hopefully, we're teaching them that gratitude should be a part of your life, or can be a part of your life. It just makes everybody feel better. It's a nice ritual.
Dave: We were talking, I think, a few weeks ago. That survey came out that said it's not the amount of time that you spend with the kids, it's how you spend that time with the kids. As parents, we're all obviously stretched right now. If nothing else, you know that you've got that dinner time where you have that conversation with everybody and it allows you to bond as a family. You might not be playing with them but you're getting some deep interaction with them.
That's another thing that I'm trying to find a little more of because we're just so slammed with stuff. It's just finding the time to just take a beat, slow things down, and really engage with the kids beyond just the quick, "How was your day?" or like, "What are you playing? Do you want to play a game?" It's just really having those deep conversations where you're really learning about your kids and learning about how they're growing, right? The kinds of conversations that you have and how they morph over the years.
That conversation that you had with your daughter when she was five is going to be very different than when she's five and a half and six. Just to see the arc of what interests them and the kinds of things that they're talking about. I think that what you guys have done allows for that, and allows to see that on a very regular basis that probably a lot of people, certainly I am one that's going to miss out on, and we have to just make it a point of emphasis to just-- Yes, you have to commit to it.
It's like, "All right, everybody." You have to commit. Even if it's, "All right. Well, just take a 15-minute break. Stop what you're doing for 15 minutes. I know you're busy, but just come and quickly wolf something down, or just come and sit with us for 15 minutes and take your food back and work, but at least just sit with us for 15 minutes." Like I said, tonight, she just kind of blew past the whole thing. I get it. There are deadlines and she's not really in control of their schedule, but I'd like to be able to figure out how to make that a regular thing.
Jim: Well, you said even 15 minutes. There's another, I'm sure we'll talk about it another time, but that dedicated one-on-one time for-- we call it mommy-daughter time or daddy-daughter time, even just like 10 minutes is really astonishing. Even if it's 10 minutes, just that one-on-one where the kid has 100% of your attention is really powerful. Your point that 15 minutes to join at the table, that's got a lot of weight to it.
Dave: It's funny because when everyone was in school I used to always-- While we could all, "Drop your kids off in front of the school," I always used to park the car and walk the kids into school because I treasured that time. It's the 10-minute walk when there's nothing quite going on yet and you're talking about anything. No one's upset from the day yet because it's still morning time and everything. I have always parked and walked the kids to school because I enjoy that time, and it's that unfettered one-on-one time to just get a beat on how they're doing.
That was earlier on when things were a little bit more normal. That was something that was a lot easier. To just carve some time out and go, "What did you do yesterday?" or those kinds of things. Obviously, it's a little bit harder these days to get in those little pieces that can fit into your day. I think part of it is what does your schedule look like and how can you just fit that 10 minutes in with your existing schedule to find those little moments?
That was one that always was a special time for me to just be like, "We're going to walk. Yes, there's a space right in front of the school, but I'm going to park three blocks away so we can walk together." I always enjoyed that.
Jim: You're talking about moments of mindfulness, which are so precious. I continually have to remind myself that this is my life and this is what's happening now, and to force myself to be present with my daughters because they are growing so fast. I'm sure I've said this to you before, but my experience as a parent is just endless heartbreak where I just fall so in love with these little girls with my whole heart and then the next day they're gone.
There's another one. There's another little girl that I fall wholeheartedly in love with, but she's gone again. Those moments of mindfulness of just like, "This is what I'm doing right now. I'm right here right now in this moment." It alleviates a lot of my anxiety that I'm going to grow but, "Where did the time go?" or, "I can't believe they grew up," and just remember that I've had those moments where I was truly present, and just really got to enjoy it for what it was.
Dave: I think that is one thing as a parent that I never really appreciated, was how fleeting these moments are and how quickly they grow. You don't recognize how quickly they're growing until it's over and you're like, "What just happened? She doesn't do that thing anymore," or, "Now she's onto this other thing." It is true. It's gone. Sometimes my youngest, he's only four, but I can barely remember when he could walk.
Here's an example of something that I missed out on. When he was learning to brush his teeth-- I was brushing his teeth, but when we were starting to do that I would say, "Spit." We've talked about this in another podcast, but I would say spit in a different language, and instead of spitting he would say the word spit in a different language.
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It went on for months. He just couldn't spit. He would say spit and I'm like, "I got to record it," and I never did. That's a moment that now I only have in my head, and I always regret that. The other moment that I always regretted was they have that funny run when they're about two. When they're still learning to walk and they're just teetering along. I always wanted to record that and I never did, because you think, "Well, I have all the time in the world," and-
Jim: You don't.
Dave: -you don't. It's amazing how quickly it's a new thing. There's sadness but then there's also some-- It's not quite excitement, but there's some interest in like, "Oh, look at how this person is turning into this other thing." As quickly as you get used to this new thing they've now moved into this new, new thing. [chuckles] It's something that I just never really realized. It's funny because we talked too about having two kids and how the second time around things are different because you know what to expect, but even with knowing this you still miss things. You feel like it's going to last forever and it just doesn't. It's so fast, and yes, so many missed things.
Jim: We've gotten in the practice of breaking out the video camera just at random times. They're playing with blocks, somebody is reading a book, and just recording that moment. Just what it is and the everyday day-to-day moment. The phrase that comes to mind is, and I heard it on NPR years ago. Some poet described the quicksilvery racehorse passage of time. I've really felt just that it's elusive and slips away, but there's that driving rhythm and it just goes.
Dave: When the kids were younger, primarily my oldest daughter, there was an app that I used, Tinybeans. At the time my-- Well, still. My mother-in-law was abroad and so it was a way of quickly taking some photos and her being able to see it. What I thought was great about Tinybeans, they send you a notification every day to remind you to take a picture of your child. I remember talking to somebody. I was like, "Oh yes. I basically have 365 pictures of my daughter. Well, minimum, because I take one every day."
This person was like, "Oh, I have the same amount of pictures," and I'm like, "The difference is you probably have 200 pictures on her birthday and then a couple of other pictures here, whereas I can see the arc of how she changes over the course of this year." Obviously, as the kids have gotten older we've gotten away from that, but it was so special at the time. Our daughter is seven now. A lot of that was done between zero and one, and Tinybeans still sends me, like Google does, like, "This is what you looked like three years or four years ago."
Of all the emails that I get, that's the one that I always look at that, I always linger, and I'm like, "Oh yes, I remember that." Sometimes, unfortunately, it's like I don't remember anything about this, but I remember that shirt or that hat that was the favorite hat, and just that notification of like, "Hey, don't forget to take a picture of your kid." It didn't need to be some fancy picture, but it was just that moment in time, and I really enjoyed that. That's one of those things too. When I talk to expecting parents I'm like, "Grab that app because it's free also," or at least it was when I had it. It's a way to remind you every day to take a picture of your kid. I just thought it was so special.
Unfortunately, we just got out of the habit with the second one, but with the first one, I think we were consistent probably for the first three years. Now when I get notifications like, "This is what was happening," it's none of the boy. [laughs] It's not any of them. That was a fail on my part, but talking about those moments and just being grateful for those little moments along the way.
Jim: Have you seen the video montages or the video collages of somebody who did take a picture to age 16 and it plays in a minute and a half? [chuckles] That hurts.
Dave: I remember after, I think it was, I don't know, kindergarten. I had done a lot of volunteering stuff in the classroom. I can't remember if we were in the same class at that point, but I put together all of the field trips, and then the teacher was like, "Oh yes. If you want to come in for half a day and take pictures," which was cool. If anybody ever has the opportunity to do that, I highly recommend it because seeing your child interact with other kids is very interesting to see which kids are friends with who.
To see it is very different than just hearing about it or seeing it on the playground. It's a completely different environment. I took all these pictures. It was good from kindergarten to first grade. We found some sappy music and man, everybody was bawling. [laughs] It was just one year. It was just the academic school year. Everybody was bawling and I was like, "Oh." It's just--
Jim: Was it kindergarten?
Dave: I think it was kindergarten. I remember I looked at one of the parents and she just was bawling. I was getting choked up. When I look at it too occasionally I get a little bit choked up. That was such a special time and, poof, it's gone. [chuckles] You just forget about it. Now I have the pictures. You can never take too many pictures.
Jim: Even talking to my friend earlier tonight, he's got the two-year-old, and I heard him interacting with his daughter. She's two. I could hear that interaction in the background and my daughters are somewhere else in the house. I'm like, "That was very different." It's a three-year difference.
Dave: Oh, have her videos, but you know what? At least we have iPhones.
Jim: Yes. Really.
Dave: Where would we be without? I know some people are like, "Well, people make fun of the people that are filming everything, that they're not present," but it's a way to just capture stuff. I do have a ton of videos. Now the problem is what do you do with it? I remember my cousin. He's like, "You've got a terabyte of photos. What do you do now?" Now I make a photo album every year. I order it in January for the prior year. Usually, at the end of every month, I consolidate all the photos, and then that's what I will send to my parents' photo frame that I mentioned on how to deal with the grandparents podcast.
For me, it's just also a nice way to look back. Obviously, last year's was such an odd photo album. You can see when COVID hits. All of a sudden we go from being outside with no masks to every photo has got a mask in it even if they're outside on the bikes. It's this huge dichotomy. There's no travel pictures anymore. It's basically just your family in every picture. There's no other kids, there's nobody else. In my case, there's no grandparents. My grandparents live five minutes away, they're not in any pictures. It's just the four of us, but that's part of the year. It's funny.
There's one picture. I remember when we were early days of the masks. I kept forgetting my mask and then you'd have to come back in and get the mask. I told my daughter, I'm like, "Yes, we got to figure something out here." She took some pipe cleaner and some painter's tape and turned the pipe cleaner into a hook and taped it to the front door. To this day, all of our masks sit on the pipe cleaner hooks, and I never forget my mask when out of the door because that photo to me encapsulates 2020. Who would have thought that we'd need something to hang our masks on, and that it would be something that we would need to do every single day?
That's the beauty of having these photos, is just you can see the arc of the year in a very clear way. They're usually about 100-some odd pages worth of photos. It's maybe 100, 125 pictures, but it tells the story of what we've been up to over the year. That's how I manage the memories and the photos.
Jim: I think we just have the avalanche. We've got the big pit. I think my wife has 150,000 photos or something ridiculous. I probably have 60,000. I don't even know what they are. Anyhow, we got it. We got the raw material.
Dave: [laughs] Right. Now you just need the time. We have to wait till we retire, and then let's sort through it.
Jim: Finally finish that baby book.
Dave: Right. By the time we retire the medium will be completely different. We'll have to figure out how to transfer our JPEGs into holograms. [laughs] We'll be like, "Okay, so now I've got to convert all my VHS tapes to DVDs, and now it's from DVD to digital," but yes, you're right. At least the raw material is there and somebody will be able to do something with it in the future.
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We hope you enjoyed this conversation about parenting. If you'd like to support the podcast and hear more discussions around fatherhood, please subscribe and drop us a review. If you have any questions, hit us up on the Facebook page, facebook.com/papaestfatigué. That's P-A-P-A-E-S-T-F-A-T-I-G-U-E. Thanks for listening.
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