Movie night with kids
Photo by Aneta Pawlik on Unsplash
In today’s episode, Dave, Jim, and Tim discuss movie night
During this episode we’ll discuss:
When and how did we start movie night
How movie night works in our homes
What is the process for choosing a movie
How do we find movies
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TRANSCRIPT
[music]
Dave: In today's episode, we're discussing movie night.
[music]
Hi everyone, welcome to the Papa est Fatigué podcast, the podcast for dads by dads. Today, we're discussing movie night. I realized this was a thing. I happen to have a conversation with a group of dads only to find out at the time that I was the only dad or family that wasn't doing a movie night. That was a big eye-opener to me. In light of my relative newcomer status, because we've just gotten underway with that, we've got Jim and Tim, who are old hands at movie night and I think are really going to advance this conversation.
Before we get going, here's my deal. I'm Dave. I have an eight-year-old girl and a four-year-old boy. [00:00:44]
Jim: I'm Jim, I got a seven-year-old girl and she's almost eight and a five-year-old girl.[00:00:46]
Tim: My name is Tim and hey, I have a eight year old girl too.[00:00:49]
Dave: They're getting old fast, right? [chuckles] To lay some groundwork here, we just got a few recommendations that we found from Common Sense Media about movie nights in particular. They had five basic tips. They said the first one is schedule it and turn off those devices, no multitasking. Number two is take turns choosing the movie, specifically, for young children, it might make sense to give them a list of movies that they can select, so you're not watching the same movie over and over again.
Then also, enforce that no complaining rule. That's certainly an issue in my house. Location, think about whether or not you want to do it at home, in the backyard, on the road, on a beach, on vacation, wherever. Make it a theme night, I love this one, so you can make French food while you watch Ratatouille or dress up if you're going to watch Harry Potter, just ways to make it a little bit more fun. Then the last one is talk about it. Make time to chat about what you watched.
There's potentially a way to add some learning in there and reinforce your family values. Use the movie as a way to progress that conversation. With those high-level tips out of the way here, I'm really curious about how you guys started movie night, how old your child or children were when you guys got started?
Tim: Well, I guess maybe I can start it out. I have a story attached to the question. Well, I remember just when we wanted to introduce our child to a motion picture, we wanted to do it in a big way to make it into an event because it's easy to forget just how much of a phenomenon, the moving picture images, being that we're saturated by it, culturally. We wanted her first experience to be something memorable.
During the International Film Festival, we looked for child-specific content and we took her so she could have the experience of seeing a film for the first time on a big screen. We took her to see a film with this ambitious. We took her to see a film called Path of the Soul which is a very slow documentary-style film of Tibetan villagers who are on a 750-mile pilgrimage to Lhasa. It's a little ambitious. What we liked about it was there was no bombast. It was barely any dialogue at all.
I feel it was just a lot of shots and sprawling mountains and landscapes and wildlife interspersed with some quiet moments around the campfire, but she was transported. We all were. She was just transfixed by this larger than life portrayal of life, which is movies, essentially. I just remember, she just stared and stared. At the time, she was just three and a half years old. It was around that time, I would say that we also started watching movies on the weekend sometimes.
Though it wasn't really frequent or regular enough to call it a movie night, per se, I would say that didn't really become formalized and ritualized until the advent of the pandemic. It's pretty recent for us, too. That's what started it for us.
Dave: Did you guys continue going? Obviously, pre-pandemic, but she had her first movie at three and a half. Did you then continue to go see movies in the theater and then transition into at home?
Tim: Yes. Whenever there was the opportunity to see it in a theater, we would opt for that just because, again, it was more of the experience of seeing a film, the social experience being in a dark room with a bunch of strangers. When you think about it, there's something weird about it. Again, we take it for granted because it's just something that we grew up with.
The thing that inspired us to do that was this film that I actually liked called Spirit of the Beehive. There's a scene in that movie where it takes place in Spain like in the 40th. I think even sooner. Actually, I think it's even sooner. Well, basically, it's like this old village in Spain in the big event for that town is when this man rides in with basically the moving picture projector and they've projected on the wall and all the kids, all the villagers come and they watched this movie.
That was the big thing for this village. He comes once a year with his moving pictures machine. I just remember the scene where they show all the kids. They show footage. This is real footage of real children who are about my daughter's age, experiencing film for the first time. It's like an arty film. None of this is affected. None of this is acted out. It's just the filmmaker decides to film children watching the film.
It's just an amazing piece of cinema just for that scene in itself. I thought that's such a cool meditation on just the power of film. I think that's what the movie night. That's what we try to bring to it when we have a movie night even now.
Dave: It's funny because with just about that first movie, but I like the fact that it calls into question. Your first movie night does not need to be a cartoon, right? [chuckles] I think that's the natural thing you think about. As Tim points out, it doesn't need to be that way. It doesn't need to be some easy-to-digest thing. It can be something that is more of an event. I like how you've come at it from a certainly a very different view than I have.
[laughs]
Tim: Yes, she doesn't remember anything of that film, which I find hilarious. [laughs]
Jim: Tim, it's interesting to hear you talk about the magic of film because I hadn't really thought about that. It's like daydreaming. For a kid to see that live-action on the screen is pretty magical. I do know that there are some children that are very sensitive to film. One little girl, in particular, that hasn't seen more than one movie just because it affects her very viscerally and very fundamental way which just reminds me about how powerful this medium is and as you say, how we take it for granted.
I've got a story too, but I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum. Tim, you're taking things to the next level. [laughs] Start calling you professor, Professor dad. It was several years ago, I think they were probably three and five and we were taking swim lessons on a Friday night. It's the end of the week, pick them up from school and then they do half-hour lessons back to back.
By about 6:00 or 6:30, long day, long week, they maybe had a snack in the afternoon, and they had just exhausted a bunch of calories during their swim lessons. When they got out of the pool, it was like nuclear dynamite. It was just chaotic. They were just out of their minds with exhaustion and hunger. As a desperation move, we started to call to have the food delivered. It was right there when we got home so we could get the food for them.
Then once we got the food, then we put on the TV, and then my wife and I could sit back and take a deep breath, finally, worry about putting our hair back in our heads. That's how we started. Then we turned it into a picnic thing. They've got a blanket, an outdoor picnic blanket. They put down in the living room. It's the only time that they can eat in the living room. We get take out. They sit on the floor.
Then we call it family movie night because we get to pick as a family. Mom and dad usually tip the scales one way or the other and make a move. We're not going to watch the same Disney movie over and over again. We have a second movie night on Saturday nights where they can watch a movie after dinner. Then my wife and I can have some grown-up time. On Friday night, we picked a movie together.
We did Flavor Last Night, We've done a lot of the classic musicals, gone through the Disney repertoire, just the whole thing. Started as an act of desperation just turned into a pretty wholesome and traditional weekend routine. It's become an entitlement. In that case, it's been a great stick for discipline. Starting on Monday, like "Hey, I got a list of movie night." We have actually stuck to that thread once or twice and it was devastating. That's powerful parenting discipline right there. It's a win-win in all cases.
Dave: It's funny. I love how we all came at this completely different angle.
[laughter]
Like I mentioned before, I literally stumbled into-- For me, movie night was more of a formal issue because I was on a call and all the dads were like, "Yes, what do you guys do for movie night?" I'm like, "What is happening here? This is a thing?". I'm like, "I guess maybe we need to be doing this also." That's literally how it happened for us. Is that, "Okay, everybody else is doing this. Maybe this is something we should think about."
We tried it a little bit. I'll get into it a little bit later on. It didn't quite work out for us the way I had imagined it would work out and I think that's primarily due to the age difference of our kids. I really just stumbled into it despite the fact that I have conversations with other parents all the time about what they're doing. This one, it hadn't come to the forefront really until I think it was a little bit before the pandemic.
We actually got started in the pandemic because it was just one of those things that was like, "Oh, well, here's an excuse. That'd be a fun way to spend time as a family together." I'm curious, Jim, we know how movie night started for you. Tim, between having that experience in the theater, the first time, was it really the function of right, "Well, we're now in the pandemic, let's bring this experience home," or what made you decide to have that experience at home?
Tim: Well, I remember movie watching took on another dimension when I can remember it was when our daughter started going to preschool. When certain films started to have social currency for her. She would want some cash when she would arrive in the class and see some of her schoolmates wearing images about stuff from Frozen or Ariel from Little Mermaid or some other Disney character on their clothes or on their backpacks, or they'd bring in some toy.
Then, of course, this made her very curious and she wanted to be part of this club. It very quickly became a point of connection between her and other children. That was another incentivizer. We began exploring those movies a little more. This was also around the time that she started to have a more regular schedule, where she would have to be somewhere every day of the week.
It was around this time that we started watching movies as a reward for working hard and making it to the end of the week. I found that if the movie we were going to watch on Friday night was set towards the beginning of the week, then it also gave us, like Jim said, it was something to look forward to. Becomes a doorway into the weekend. Sometimes even set the tone for the weekend. That was the push that made it into something more regular.
Dave: Yes. I'm curious now because also that is an interesting concept to planning in advance and then having that thing to look forward to it. Why don't you guys talk a little bit about what does movie night look like for you? Jim, it sounds like you guys do take out every night, the girls are on the floor, and maybe the adults are in the chairs. Why don't you guys discuss a little bit about what it actually looks like for your families?
Jim: Yes. I think you nailed it. That's pretty much it. We're in the living room. We got the TV, on girls sit on the floor with their food, and we sit on the couch. When they're done with their food, they clear their plates and they'll come and snuggle with us on the couch. It is it's good family time. We put the phones down as recommended and try to be present. Have a shared experience together rather than just electronic babysitting, while mom and dad do some other things. We try to make it a very intentional thing and try to be present with it.
Dave: Tim, what about you guys?
Tim: Yes. We generally watch movies on Friday nights. We try to set aside on Saturday nights for game night but that doesn't always stay out the way I plan it. [laughs] Sometimes it turns into two movie nights, but that's another conversation going on.
Dave: Then are you guys cooking, or take out, or what do you?
Tim: Yes. Our basic ritual is that I cook popcorn on the stove, and doing session with. It's also the one day in the week where we drink soda like an event because otherwise, she's bouncing off the walls if it's every day of the week.
[laughter]
During the lockdown last year, we were ordering takeout did play more prominently, it came on to play, usually from one of our favorite pizza places. Now, that things are getting back to normal, we're going away from that and getting back on the whole popcorn and soda thing. We don't have a TV, but I have a pretty big monitor on my laptop, so we tend to watch at my desk.
My daughter, she gets the desk chair, and then my wife and I bring a couple of dining room chairs and set them behind her desk. It's movie night for everybody, but usually, to be fair, it's usually driven by her. She's in the captain's seat. [crosstalk] We'll just sit back and so she's got control of the mouse and it's funny.
Dave: We don't do it that frequently anymore. We did start off in the living room and just like Jim, that's the only time they're allowed to eat in the living room. I've also used water bottles for them because we've had so many glasses of milk just knocked down on the floor, I'm like, "All right, I don't want to do that anymore." Unlike Jim, we were not as good with the whole shut everything out, no phones.
There were a few times where the kids were on the couch eating, and my wife and I were sitting at a different table doing something completely different. Then it really did become the babysitting thing. For a few times, we did embrace and I'm like, "All right, the kids, you guys go watch a movie. Mom and I, we're going to go and eat in a different room and have an adult conversation for once." That defeated the whole purpose of the family shared time.
A combination of that plus, the fact that the kids could just never agree on movies because of their age differences, we started to pull away from it. That was what it will look like. For a little while too the kids would also sit on the floor, we have these little TV tables also. It was the right size for a child to have their own little space, and that's how we did it. I'm curious because our movie night has changed over the course of time.
We've tried different things and ultimately again, it didn't work for us. Have you guys kept the movie night from its genesis, has it mostly stayed the same since its inception? Has it changed over time as either your children have grown, or as the movies have changed, or as you find things that did work, how has that happened if at all?
Jim: I think we've stayed pretty much the same. I think the only thing, I'm back to what you said as far as the movie night and the intentionality and all that, we do that thing on Saturday. Mom and dad sit in the other room, and the kids have a movie and it's great to have some away time, but it's for Friday, we try to find something that we're all going to watch together. Like I said, we've been doing musicals. Here's how it's changed. We went through the entire repertoire of Disney movies and had to start digging into the deep cuts.
[laughter]
Looking at, we've gone through the Mary Poppins, and the musical Singing in The Rain, White Christmas, we did around Christmas time, things like that. So long as the kids are--in my opinion are pretty fascinated by anything to your point, Tim. It's just fascinating to watch TV. For us, it's about having everyone in a shared experience. At the beginning it was, "God help us. We got to deal with these nuclear kids."
[laughter]
Now it's evolved into a really, it's become a special family time. We try to make it that way and it doesn't really matter what we're doing.
Tim: That's pretty cool. I would say that for me, that's the pandemic definitely changed it. Just not being able to go out and do stuff back then made it more a survival mechanism, an escape hatch from the whole COVID nightmare. You can just hide there for a couple of hours a week. Since then it has become a permanent feature, it seems to be here to stay now. Something else that I've seen change, as our daughter gets older, she's becoming more curious about actors in the film, for instance.
If there's an actor in the film that she really like, and I think this may have to do with the way they were watching because we're on a laptop, she'll want to go on Google. Google will get the actor's name, or see what other movies they were in. Even if it's an animation that she really likes, like Maya Zaki animation. Certainly, it'll just stoke her interest in everything that he made, and so then that'll help even guide, excuse me, it'll even help guide what we're going to see next.
That's changed as she gets older, and you can actually see how she's processing these films differently. It is entertainment, but then it seems she's able to be a little bit detached enough to where at the end, she wants to look into the technical aspects of it. Who was that actor? I really liked what they did. It's interesting.
Jim: It's like literally a window into the new world.
Dave: Tim, I'm curious, how do you guys choose movies? It sounds like your daughter is choosing most of the movies. You bring up this whole concept of sometimes she's, I guess almost leapfrogging from movie to movie because it's either a subject or an actor that she's interested in. Is that pretty frequent that that's how you guys choose the movies, then one thing leads to another? What is the process, and how much of the parents do you guys weigh in on the choices?
Tim: Well, I definitely have to say it's pretty stressful just trying to figure out what to watch. It just enlarges in large part because of the algorithm, just that it's thrown at you with a lot of these streaming services. They try to make the choice or they fill these choices in your face that you would never have made, you would never have chosen, but then once your child sees it it's there. It's Pandora's box. It's always open. What I did to try to alleviate that was we have created the list, the movie list, and it includes movies that we have seen as well as movies that we want to see. I'm just amazed at how long that list is.
As we discover and hear about movies or other things we want to watch, we add them to that list. Then usually at some point during the week, I'll consult the list, pick three or four movies from it, and then we watch the trailers, we discuss some, we read about them. Ther is a democratic process to how we pick the movies. There are three of us in my household so that means one of us is going to lose to the other two. It's just the way it is.
[laughter]
Dave: Is it mostly you as the dad losing all the time to the two girls?
Tim: Yes, usually.
[laughter]
Dave: They're ganging up on you.
Tim: There are other times when one of us wins out just for sheer will.
[laughter]
Dave: I can imagine you guys stating your case to the family. This is why we should watch this movie and here are all the readings at.
Tim: Exactly. [laughs]
Dave: Jim what about yourself? How do you guys pick movies?
Jim: I like your point about the algorithm and it does take a little bit of, there's a lot of times we've got to steer them away from what's next in the coming up. I think I said something earlier, Tim, about getting into a vain. We watched My Neighbor Totoro and then there was a couple others. We haven't seen Spirited Away yet but we'll hit that outside of the Disney, whatever they call it, Disney portfolio.
We'll find these other things and do some deep dives. We've done things like, I don't know, Babe and some other live-action movies with dogs and cats and things like that are outside of that realm. I am usually the guy that loses when we're picking picks. I try to steer things in a certain direction but really if they're not into it they're not going to watch it. We do have to have agreement.
The girls both have to agree on the film, I'm not going to hear any complaining or whining or anything back and forth. If you want to watch it you've got to agree between each other which one of these you're going to watch and then mom and dad can give the final approval.
Dave: I'm curious what the negotiation is between an almost eight-year-old and a five-year-old. [chuckles] Is it what you would expect? [chuckles] How does that work?
Jim: This isn't courtroom drama.
[laughter]
I mean, it's exactly what you would expect.
[laughter]
It seems persuasive techniques that a five-year-old has. That's the one.
Dave: [laughs] Nice. Okay, that's good. This is the reason why family night ultimately fell apart at my place [chuckles] which is the kids could never agree on a movie. I think that our son is just a lot more sensitive to stuff and also just in general he's a lot more stubborn when it comes to everything, food everything. He's just set in his ways which we're trying to work on.
Our daughter wants to watch something and I'll show our son a clip and he's like, "I don't want to watch that." I'm like, "What? Why not?" He's like, "I just don't want to watch that."
[laughter]
We're back to square one. For a while, they would choose something together, and then 10 minutes in he would get scared or be like, "I'm done with this." For a little while then he would go off and do a different movie on a different device. Again, now we've lost the whole point of family time. Now, we may as well just call it screen time and be done with it. We did that for a couple of weeks, two or three weeks and I'm like, "This is stupid.
This is the antithesis of what we're trying to accomplish here." At that point I pivoted real hard into documentaries, specifically animal. Disney+ has all the behind-the-scenes at the zoo which that actually worked pretty well and I could just tell him, "Here's what we're watching. It's this or nothing. Take your pick." That worked out tremendously well for a while but after a while it just became not worth the drama that it was causing.
I think that when he's maybe a little bit older, we'll try and reintroduce it but right now his speed is really like Octonauts and some of them like there's a Jim Henson show on Netflix that, he's really into that really preschool kind of stuff. The eight-year-old is like, "I want to watch Descendants." She's just ready for just things that he just can't really grasp his head around and even some of the automated stuff.
It's surprising how scary it can be to almost five year old. I was never really able to get him to agree other than on some documentaries and that's how we ended up ours with that.
Jim: Those are good movies too. We went through the whole repertoire of David Attenborough nature films. Well, there's [unintelligible 00:25:11] sets these got about eight movies and that filled up a lot of time. That felt like that was a great cross-section. Everybody liked those. Everybody enjoyed them. I did certainly more than some of the Disney films and the girls were fascinated.
Again at that age, I mean, just seeing these animals in environments that are just so far outside of their imagination they just had never even conceived of it. There's a little bit of magic there to see that happen.
Tim: Yes, I would agree with that. Documentaries it's hard to lose with those because we don't have to deal with the tug of war between two kids which is I can't even to imagine. We definitely still have to deal with diplomacy and practicing all that. We do try to keep an open mind because sometimes the challenge can come from us, the adults, and I have to remind myself that my eight-year-old is naturally going to want to watch something that my wife and I just do not need in our lives. [laughs]
That's okay once in a while. I have to always remind myself that in allowing for that she gets the joy of having some autonomy and feeling their choices and their decision-making process actually matter which I think is important in her development. We get to see the joy of seeing her enjoy it. In some cases, that's all we get out of it but again that's okay.
[laughter]
Dave: Because that's what being a parent is, right?
[laughter]
Tim1: Right. I think one requirement that we have and it's pretty much the main requirement is just being careful that the content isn't teaching her things that go against values that we try to teach her at home. Sometimes that'll sneak up on you. You'll be watching it and then all of a sudden it will take this turn but usually, it's pretty good. We try to vet everything before we actually watch it.
We review, we watch reviews on YouTube. Also, our daughter [unintelligible 00:27:20] for scary stuff is still pretty low as well. We try not to watch content that might give her nightmares later. Again, sometimes that's easier said than done since things that trigger her could be totally unexpected. For example, we tried to watch E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial with her once a couple of months ago and she was just so weirded out that we had to turn it off about halfway through.
Then I looked at it and I was like, "Yes, he is kind of creepy."
[laughter]
Dave: Yes, when you're eight that guy is a little terrifying.
[laughter]
Tim: Then there's other movies where a scary part comes up and she doesn't bat an eyelid. Who knows? We just try to keep that in mind while choosing movies.
Jim: We lean pretty heavily on the Common Sense Media because there are those things that I wouldn't know until halfway through the movie and once they come up then it's a little bit too late. I try to get a pre-review before we start it.
Dave: You guys have started to touch on it already but, Jim, you mentioned you're leaning towards the end of the list of movies. laughs] What do you guys do to find good movies? Common Sense, it sounds like Jim you've exhausted the catalogue. [chuckles] How did you get there? I'm curious if either of you guys are showing your kids some of the movies that maybe we grew up with from the eighties like Flight of the Navigator.
It's something I remember as a kid watches and be like, "That's the coolest movie in the world." Are you guys starting to dip into the childhood favorites or how do you select movies at this point?
Jim: Common Sense Media has films sorted by age and so that's usually a good first place to go. They've got what age the parents think the movie should for and then what age the kids think the movie should be for which I'm not sure how they get that data. The kid's ages seemed to be pretty good. Parents may say it's for five-year-olds, kids it's for seven-year-olds, turned out to be fine for both our five and our seven year old.
There are also just internet searches where there are lists of the 100 best kids movies, things like that. There are a lot that we have not got to, Gremlins, E.T, Flight of the Navigator, Goonies we're waiting to show them something like that. We haven't even touched the Star Wars repertoire yet. I don't know how to really explain that to a seven-year-old.
[laughter]
That's way outside of many experience that I could relate to as far as they are concerned. Then talking about the dad's frankly I mean, Tim, you've got some great ideas that I'm going to pull from and just to see what other people are watching. There is some currency about it as you said earlier some of the the latest films that come out Disney movie and there was a new, I guess it was a Pixar movie, The Mitchells vs. the Machines, that's a new one that people are talking about. We try to go from both ends, go from the catalogue and then hear what other people are talking about.
Tim: The man on the street, kind of.
Jim: Yes, that's right. [laughs]
Tim: We do Common Sense, yes, that's a great resource Common Sense Media. Like you said, it goes by age and genre. It's great because it even has sub-genres, it goes into foreign films for kids which is cool.
Dave: That's cool.
Tim: My daughter loves subtitles now because now that she can read pretty good, she really likes subtitles.
Jim: That's cool.
Tim: Then it becomes also somewhat educational just helping them with their reading even when they're being entertained, which is a two for one. Metacritic. I find that's also a good online resource and it's been around for a long time. They rank their films by a user score. What's cool about IMDB Family Entertainment Guide is that it pretty much lists every movie that's ever existed. Again, if you go into the Family Entertainment guiding, it starts going into the Charlie Chaplin films.
It goes really far back, so you also get a history lesson, just again, on film. Immediately you're reminded, "Man, this has been around for a long time." Let me think. Oh, yes, like you said, Dave, there's those movies that my wife and I saw when we were young and that made big impressions on us. Those are certainly on our list. The NeverEnding Story, we showed that one to our daughter, she loved it. That was a great film.
Yes, there was other ones that we're holding off on, just waiting till she's a little bit older because, yes, they have that scary element to them. We also saw the original Muppet movie a couple of weeks back, she loved that. These are movies again that we saw when we were younger and really enjoyed. We've also recently discovered that there's quite a few movies that my daughter has seen but doesn't remember seeing when she was younger.
That's been real fascinating, just learning about those and revisiting them. As far as what we watch, I think my rule of thumb has always been to try to keep my daughter's interest broad whether it'd be with books or TV or watching movies. Try not to oversaturate ourselves with the same type of content because then it starts to become predictable and still, Jim, you mentioned that earlier as well.
We try to run the gamut, we try to watch the blockbusters but we also try to watch movies about music for instance. We might watch a concert or a documentary about music or about nature, cooking or even architecture. My daughter had this new fascination with architecture, so we watch shows like A Day in the Life of Zaha Hadid, the architect. She's from Iraq. Things like that. We go all over the place.
Dave: Do you guys have a favorite streaming service or how are you guys all consuming your movies?
Jim: I think I'm the easy one, I'm guessing Tim's got some nice [unintelligible 00:33:33] catalog of gems that he can pull from. I'm a little resentful about that. We spent all that money on Apple TV to buy the movies that now we just get for $4 a month with Disney Plus. We've got Apple TV, Disney Plus and then Netflix usually. There's Amazon Prime we have to go to every once in a while for particularly documentaries that aren't available elsewhere.
Tim: I find Amazon Prime has one of the larger pools of available movies. We use them all. I find that Amazon Prime is almost the default. It's funny because I find with all these services, it often has to do with timing. I found with all of them that there are times when you want to watch something and then you learn they no longer stream it. In which case, you have to, again, do the deep internet dive where you can find it. "I want to see that movie." Maybe it has less to do with the service you like and more to do with who actually has it. I don't know if I have a favorite per say.
Dave: Jim, you had mentioned in some previous podcasts, I can't remember. Well, we were talking about grandparents and what we plan to do over the summer. I just wanted to revisit that because I think you guys were planning to do some outdoor movie nights and I'm just wondering if you guys are still on track for that or if that's happened or if you're still planning to do that this year.
Jim: I can't wait. We're just trying to get into some warmer weather for our area that may be nice to have some outdoor movies. Tammy, my mother-in-law, bought us a digital projector so we could watch films outside. I think she got it particularly for COVID so that we could watch movies together, be outdoors and be socially distanced and things like that. It's a lot of fun. You start at the twilight or the dusk, pop some popcorn, put out some lawn chairs. That's a lot of fun.
We haven't had a whole lot of warm weather lately but as it starts to warm up, I think we're going to start doing that on Saturday nights. We'll invite the neighbor kids over and just a couple of other kids nearby that can come over, make it a small family block party.
Dave: I've been trying to get my kids to the drive-in and it just keeps [unintelligible 00:35:39]. That is an experience that I feel like, "You're an American kid, you've got to go to the drive-in at least once. It's a thing here."
Jim: You've been to a couple, haven't you?
Dave: I've only been to a couple and none with my daughter. Well, actually, no, that's not true. We went to one this year I guess, during the pandemic. We went to go see Monsters, Inc. which they have watched at home and within about 10 minutes in, they're both freaking out. I don't know if they were seeing things too big. We're trapped.
Jim: Out there in the middle of the night, it's dark.
Dave: Now we're trapped because our car is-- We can't get out of the lot. It seemed like, "All right, well, I guess the kids are going to watch Netflix in the car and I will watch Monsters, Inc. with my wife." That is exactly what happened. They watched something else on Netflix in the car while we finished the Monsters, Inc.. That was the first and last drive-in that we went to this year. I don't know. We might have to wait a couple of years to give it another ride. I've always been like, "Let's do that."
Jim and I have talked about this of people that we know who've grown up without any TV or pop culture. Again, one of my friends, she married this guy who didn't watch any TV growing up, his parents were professor, no movies. At the age of like 30 something, she's like, "Okay, we're going to watch Goonies, we're going to watch Back to the Future. You were a child of the '80s and this is part of your culture. You might be 30 but you're going to go learn it now."
There is something to that where, I wouldn't say that necessarily he looks back now on it and misses it but I've got to believe that certainly when you're whatever, 8, 9, 10, 15, and everyone's talking about that movie and you're like, "I have no idea what you're talking about," there probably is something to that where you're like, "This sucks. Why won't my parents let me participate?"
Tim: Yes, totally. That's what got us on board with it again. As soon as she started going to school, I can track it and pinpoint it. That was when we had to have a conversation about it. We knew there would be time. It's just going to come, just by design. She will eventually be exposed to these things. You can't really shield them, especially when you live in the city, you've got billboards everywhere, you've got people and t-shirts and backpacks.
I'd rather that we offer it than her feel like she's missing out on it and try to sneak in. I don't want her to feel like it's wrong or something or to start judging other kids because well- [crosstalk]
Dave: Sounds like a drunk conversation.
Tim: What was that?
Jim: Yes.
Tim: What?
Dave: Sounds like a drunk conversation.
Tim: Your right. I know, [unintelligible 00:38:23]. I didn't want her to be too socially-
Jim: Excluded.
Tim: -excluded, yes. You just don't know how it's going to play out in the school setting. It's like Pokémon, right? I have no interest in Pokémon but I know my kid's classmates do. That made me have to, "Well, let's understand this Pokémon thing [crosstalk]." She goes in and she's got some knowledge and I think that's helpful for her.
Jim: Dave and I have talked about that. I have to do that. I've got to get the rules because I don't want anybody taking advantage of my girl, tricking her into giving up the big cards.
Dave: You know what I think was interesting about this conversation is I think back about the types of movies that our kids are watching, well, I guess primarily, your kids are watching. One thing that I've noticed here is, and again, the age appropriateness is two things. One is that we don't have any boys. I do feel like the boys have started watching things that to me, are, I'm not saying they're necessary age inappropriate but I'm like, "Yes, my daughter's not ready for that." I think a lot of- [crosstalk]
Jim: Star Wars.
Dave: Star Wars in particular, I feel like a lot of the boys have seen that. I think also, with our girl's being-- The one's in particular we're talking about, the oldest of the kids, one thing that I do see is in some of our daughter's classmates when they're the younger of the sibling, also at that point, they've watched more things that are older because maybe because the older child is maybe 10 or 11 years old and so the younger one gets to tag along. I think that's interesting how it does frame our world in terms of what we believe is age-appropriate. I am curious to know like-- Obviously, we'll never know for sure, but if our oldest was a boy if we'd be talking about completely different set of movies at this point?
Tim: Probably.
Dave: I thought that was interesting.
Tim: I've seen firsthand how that it's so important that they're exposed when the time is right. Because if they're not, these things influence you. Sometimes these kids don't even know what what's happening to them. I know a kid who her older sibling was two years older. He was already into Hunger Games and stuff. She knew the books, she knew the movies and this was a couple of years ago, but she's a classmate with my daughter.
Her whole outlook on things was shaped by that, in terms of relationships, the people. I found it really fascinating like a very interesting social. It was interesting to see that and it gave me pause I was like, wow, I really need to pay attention to this stuff. Because it will affect them in ways that they don't even understand, and when they're so young their minds are being molded. It's important.
Dave: Have you thought about the Harry Potter series? Because Jim and I were just talking about this, it feels like the first couple of books our kids could probably handle, but starting around book five with Cedric Diggory like I'm definitely not ready for my daughter to going through that. Has that started to come up in your conversations, has your daughter asked about any of that, or are you guys thinking about that?
Tim: That's an interesting series. This is a question to your question. Do you think those books were written to grow with the reader?
Jim: Yes, I've wondered that.
Dave: I feel like, and I think that's also why she has such a following. If you look at those kids that grew up during that series, they're all like, yes, this was my childhood. I progressed in life and yes I grew mentally with these fictional characters. I think that's why she's created such a powerful fandom for generation of kids who can identify with the overarching messages that she's providing, even if it's a wisening world.
Tim: I think we forget sometimes that because when those books they had to wait long stretches for each volume. They were growing up as they were waiting for the next publication, like the next part of the series. We have it all compounded now we have the volume. We're getting to end so you could just blow through them if you wanted. Now that I'm thinking about it, it's like the people who grew up with that series as it was coming out in real time they had to wait.
By the time they came, they were of the age to read them like they're the appropriate age to read them. That's where it takes a certain amount of self-control. There are a lot of movies that you want them to see but you're like, oh, this is such a cool movie, and is she the right age though/
Dave: I am curious. What kinds of movies have you guys really connected with, or your daughter really connected with?
Tim: I have to look at my list.
Dave: [chuckles] You've got such a diverse list, but going back to the point where Jim is running out of ideas, "Hey Tim."
Jim: I'm going to look up the 1938 beekeeper movie. I think that's fantastic.
Tim: That's not really a children's movie. It was just the movie that I [crosstalk]. Put that scene, you could play find that one scene on YouTube. It's amazing. The movie is called-- Again it's called the Spirit of the Beehive. One movie that my daughter really connected with was Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind. She's watched it several times and again it's a Miyazaki film.
In my opinion, it's a good starter film for that. It's [unintelligible 00:44:40] unto itself, but I think that's a good starter film. It's just the animations not too weird. I think it's his first animation actually. I think it's the only one that was among the first and then he went into animation with that particular film. That one impressed. What about you Jim, which ones?
Jim: One of the connected to that, it's hard to say. It's probably more the nature ones. Those were the ones that they had a more of a whole-body connection to, rather than just watching the Disney cartoons. I was like they were becoming part of a bigger world as opposed to just been sucked into a cartoon.
Dave: I think it's one thing to have the documentaries about the world and animals. Are you guys starting to introduce movies as teaching moments? There are a number of movies where that there's a specific message and that's what the movie is about, whether it's identity or all sorts of things. Are you starting to line those up or is it like those are maybe the next round of movies and that maybe the kids are not quite there yet, but almost there?
Tim: I definitely do look for that and I've always looked for that in the same way that when you read a story, you want to have a moral at the end of the story. I try to keep that same principle with films, especially when they're this young. I think again Nausicaä, speaking to that film has that message. She also really connected with Searching for Bobby Fischer, that one. I think now's a perfect time to show a film like that.
The protagonist is seven years old. It's a boy. I don't know if you're familiar with it too much, but it's about chess. It's also about just what it means to win, about the competitive spirit, what drives you to win. It's presented in a very subtle and thoughtful way, and she really connected to that one.
Dave: Tim, I'm curious the last time we had you on the podcast, we were talking about game night and one of the takeaways from game night was it's great to be able to have conversations. When the game is done you made this move, what did you learn from the game? How would you play differently? You have those conversations with your daughters as you guys are playing games which I think reinforces the learning.
I'm curious, are you also doing that with movies where at the end of the movie you're having a conversation? Did you agree with that character, what they did? Why do you think they made that decision? Beyond just the how did you like it, are you having those teachable conversations every night? Obviously, not all movies are built for that but is that also part of your process
Tim: Sometimes, but not always. Again, we do make space for just goofy movies that have no redeeming value beyond just getting a laugh out of you and just being entertained. We do also create a space for that as well because-- I'm trying to think of another instance. For instance, I guess you can call them movies. It was a documentary series called The Most Dangerous Ways to School that we saw and it came out a few years ago, but we watched it.
I think it was towards the beginning of the pandemic when we started to watch the series, but it's literally a movie about kids from different parts of the world were about my daughter's age. Who all take these really harrowing and dangerous journeys to get to a classroom every day. Again, the lesson that we were trying to just teach, we live four blocks away from her school.
It takes nothing to get there, but I wanted her to see the value of education in that and how in some parts of the world, children really will go to great lengths to get that education. It's not always easy to come by for us. It was a really exciting series to watch. It just had on the edge of your seat and because these kids are so young, she could relate to them and we're all rooting for them.
Yes, we do seek out stuff at times that we think she can use, and sometimes it has to do with things she's experienced at school. We'll look for things that might relate to maybe an experience that she had at school like maybe that deals with bullying. We look for a movie that addresses bullying in a positive way and where you might have a protagonist that deals with that challenge that she can look at it as a model or something. We have done that.
Jim: What was the name of the movie the kids going to school?
Tim: It's called The Most Dangerous Ways to School, it's a series. Each episode is about 30 minutes. I believe there are six episodes. I highly recommend it.
Jim: Yes, we'll check it out.
Tim: Yes, I think the kids would enjoy it.
Dave: I'm curious if you guys have any thoughts on the old school Disney movies, since we all have daughters, the whole, "Oh, help me, I need the strong prince to come and save me." Is that okay or have you intentionally steered away from that? Or you're like, "Whatever she wants to watch, she wants to watch it." I'm curious about that, I guess.
Jim: We started with the Frozen movie, which I think is great because it's about sisters, it's about sister love. Then, Frozen 2 had some positive messages as far as the male character Sven and his relationship with Anna, it seemed pretty healthy. Then the other ones, things like Sleeping Beauty and Snow White. We've maybe watched those once or twice and they just don't really get it.
I don't feel like they're being indoctrinated in any way in those movies. Watching them now as an adult, they're pretty weird. Those are the ones that we've gone back to more than once. It's something that I pay attention to in these movies and try to find movies that have powerful female characters and courageous actions and things like that.
Dave: When my daughter was born, I think I went out and bought a whole bunch of the old classic Disney movies because I was like, "We should watch this." Then I think right as you grow into your fatherhood, you're like, "That's not appropriate at all."
Jim: [laughs] We haven't watched Pinocchio. It's a sick movie.
Dave: Yes, the kids are getting drunk. I didn't realize-
Jim: Turning into donkeys and yelling for their mom, heartbreaking.
Dave: Yes, but I think part of it is you don't realize it because you had seen it when you were seven years old. 40 years later or whatever, 30 years later you're like, "This was so inappropriate."
Jim: Yes. Peter Pan too.
Dave: Yes. I have them but it's not something I'm like, "Hey, kids, let's go watch this." [chuckles] It's because mostly, you just forget how inappropriate they were. Different times, right? You're like, "This is not something I really want my kids to be watching because this is going to steer them. Let's watch this thing instead."
Tim: [laughs] I think we're definitely alive at a very good time in terms of the Disney Channel. In your point, Jim, they've really done a good job of just balancing it out, having a good, very diverse line of different heroes and heroines to choose from, and each one very unique, each storytelling, it's a very unique story and giving its own unique lessons. Whereas before it was definitely more cookie-cutter, definitely very predictable in terms of-
Jim: They're all Grimm fairy tales or Aesop's fables, things like that.
Tim: Yes, and they didn't deviate too much.
Dave: I did see Raya. I know, Jim, you have, but I think Raya is not a princess. I think also Moana is not, I guess the dad's the chieftain. I think they started to move away from also just that princess classification.
Jim: They're both warrior princesses, so they are technically princesses, but they're not damsels in distress.
Dave: Right, which I think was the- [laughs]
Jim: Hero princesses in town.
Dave: Yes. In the Princess layer mold, I don't need other people to come save me.
Tim: Actually, it's funny. Sometimes I will deconstruct things, because something that I found really strange is how Disney princesses often don't have a mother or the mother is just not present, or she's hanging in the background, or there's a stepmother. Even now, with the newer films. I take opportunities like that to tell my daughter, because now that she's seen enough of them, I'll just tell, "Have you noticed about all these films? Why do you think that is?" It's a way of having a conversation.
Jim: First rule of Disney, kill the parents.
Dave: Yes, somebody's got to go. At least one person's got to go.
Tim: The dad usually factors in pretty strongly, but the mom for some reason. My daughter actually sometimes will come with these observations that just, I never thought of that. Part of it is just there's all these reasons, you have a point of view that I just don't have on this matter. I still haven't reconciled that in my own brain. Maybe you guys can help me with that.
[laughter]
Jim: I don't understand Disney at all. My theory about Disney is that they have a warehouse of three to seven-year-olds and they just show them films all day long to see which ones make them drool with interest. They're like, "That's it. Let's make that move."
Dave: That's the one. I'm curious if you guys have any advice for people just starting out with movie night. Again, it seems like you guys have been through it a few times. Also, I think, because you have very distinct ways you've approached it. I'm curious what your advice would be for new people.
Jim: My only advice is really make a family time. Like we said, put down the phones, make it something you all agree with, everyone be present for it, because otherwise you're just watching TV. You can do that just any other night.
Tim: Yes, I totally agree with that. I would say just try to make it an event and keep it fun. Again, there's something magical about it, this way of taking your family on some adventure to different places and times and experiences through the media of the moving image. To foster that spirit of wonder in your children, it's so meaningful to their development, and it can also strengthen the family bond at the same time. It is a great thing to try to integrate into your family life, if you can.
Dave: Yes, I think, on my end, given my experience, my takeaway is don't force it, [laughs] if it's just becoming a headache, because it really was for us. It was just more trouble than it was worth. Then just let it go and give it a try again in a few months. I think we're rounding that corner where we might be willing to give it another shot, but I think we've learned about just having a few more guide rails in terms of what they can watch.
Here are the three different types of documentaries you can watch until the youngest one is old enough to handle some more content. Again, just because everybody else is doing it doesn't mean you need to have the FOMO that we did. I think it's just a function of understanding where your child is at mentally and how much you can handle that. That would be my takeaway.
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